In opening this series of articles on the theme of transcendence as a point of departure in the God Debate the reader was introduced to the concept of universal and pure ideas. The object of the present discussion, in returning to this theme, is to reach a clearer understanding of these essences as realities that, whilst lacking any material or quantifiable corporeality, form the foundation for anything to which the human mind can ascribe quality. It simply does not do to dismiss the epistemic appreciation of quality as an adopted meme beneficial to the survival instinct and the wider evolutionary process. Admittedly, that certain birds prefer the characteristics of one tree to another for the purpose of nest-building does indeed fit this description. Likewise, the reality that human communities have produced folk tales and myths warning of the dangers of, for example, the sea fits this description as well. Yet this is but a rudimentary identification of quality. On consideration of this behavioural commonality one can discern in both birds and people an a priori desire for objects of the highest possible quality; an innate yearning for perfection. Here one arrives at ontology; the universal idea of perfection presupposed by the desire for the best object among alternatives. Moving beyond those preferences and that desire which assist animals in their survival and evolutionary journey there are examples of preferences according to quality that serve not our instinct to survive but our sense of pleasure. One need think only of why greater value is attributes to Michelangelo’s David than to a clay beaker made by a sixteen year old as part of school art project. Quality better satisfies need and gives living things pleasure.
Similar to the question first posed in The Chautauquan magazine (1883) regarding the sound or silence of a tree falling in a location bereft of listeners, a thought experiment arises from our conceptualisation of quality or the transcendent. If one were to suggest that there existed two things in a hypothetical universe without life; one of immeasurable quality and another of little quality. Can this qualitative distinction be maintained in the absence of any intellect capable of perceiving these objects? The strictly materialist answer (holding that the quality of a thing can be evaluated only by the processes of mind) would be an unqualified no. Yet if the further suggestion was to be advanced that the particular quality of these two existing things was the ability to generate intelligent life, then at some future date that intelligent life would have the ability to qualitatively differentiate between the two retrospectively; implying that the quality pre-existed the intelligent mind. This latter consideration, by the anthropic principle, concludes that quality exists independent of mind. The strictly materialist answer demands that there was no transcendent quality prior to mind, and therefore contradicts the present reality of mind. This paradoxical conclusion may be extended to all transcendental qualities and to their reality at every moment and in every part of the physical universe.
One such quality which is of particular interest to the present discussion (at least so far as Judaism and Christianity are concerned) is that of ‘the good.’ This transcendental quality of goodness has a number of meanings including that which is pleasing or beneficial, morally right or virtuous and enjoyable or satisfying, among others. With regard to this concept of the good the physicist may say that the elemental particles of matter spread throughout the universe are good due to their ability to form stars, solar systems and galaxies. This attribution of goodness is precisely the intended meaning of that captured by the poet behind the Hebrew Bible’s first account of creation:
“And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness (Genesis 1:4).”
This intuition of a transcendent good existing prior to humanity, a quality considered good by virtue of its beneficial effect on every proceeding development, was not lost on the mind of the biblical author; able only to reflect upon this quality in retrospect. At this point, it is hoped, the physicist and the priest, ‘Einsteinian Religion’ and Theology can share common ground; throughout the universe, running in tandem with all the laws of physics there exists a transcendent aspect which has being (without material substance) wholly distinct from the universe. ‘Being (from the verb ‘to be’ as opposed to the sense of a ‘sentient being’)’ in the previous clause is emphasised because, unlike the universe of matter and void, it lacks the quantifiable characteristics of existing matter or void capable of being inhabited by matter. To speak of transcendent being as opposed to quantifiable matter and void in the universe brings the focus of the discussion to Plato’s concept of pure ideas, yet even to think of ‘ideas’ implies mind and thought. Therefore this thought of pure or essential thought must be further refined to the idea of essence; the essence of a universal quality which transcends everything which is empirically quantifiable in the cosmos. It would appear that mathematics provides the best analogous approach to this rather cerebral form of rational gymnastics.
Mathematics, quite unlike physics, chemistry and biology with their theorems and hypotheses, is the only science or art (in the classical sense) that can offer proofs and truths. The purely abstract quality of n (any number) retains its numerical value ad infinitum; time, matter and void have no bearing on the value of n and thus one can speak of this value as not merely a mathematical truth but as a transcendent and eternal truth. The unquantifiable essence of numerical truth, like the numerous transcendent qualities of time, matter and void, has its being with, in and through the universe and at every moment of the universe’s existence. Had then we to assume the validity of modern cosmological consensus that matter has always existed, it follows then that one must accept the same is true also of the being of transcendence. Once this logical premise is established adherence to the dogma of strict philosophical or scientific materialism becomes impossible. The empiricist is thus forced to concede that the very qualities which allow the intelligent mind to form meaning have a reality that, to quote Saint Paul of Tarsus, ‘transcend all understanding (Philippians 4:7).’
Such a concession, if such is to be possible, raises two important questions; that of the limitation of imagination and that of the nature of Jewish and Christian revelation. With regard to the question of imagination the suggestion that transcendence is not within the intellectual sphere of empirical verification or quantification has been challenged by the hypothesis that it is unknowable at present due only to the lack of imagination and technology. Indeed this is an astute counter argument, but it is vaguely reminiscent of Will Ferguson’s description of the Japanese penchant for the statistical analysis of beauty:
“They have discovered that the famous white sands and blue pine trees of the Bridge of Heaven are relatively minor features of the view. A scientific breakdown shows that the pine trees comprise just 8.2 percent of the overall picture… (Hokkaido Highway Blues, 1998)”
Something rich, transcendently beautiful and poetic is lost in the translation of the sublime to the statistical. One need think only of a romantic steam-train journey along the Welsh coast spoiled by the presence of Roy Cropper in the same carriage. The materialist assertion that ‘one fine day’ all the mysteries of the transcendent essences will be laid bare with the power of scientific, empirical inspection smacks of violence against wonder. Can we truly imagine, do we want to imagine a world wherein making love is merely coitus or where babies are simply offspring? The preceding rhetoric, however, is no argument at all, and if it was an argument it would be a rather facile argument to sheer will power. That we do not wish to live in such a world does not mean that we do not. It remains to be seen whether or not humanity lacks the imagination to envisage the unravelling of such mysteries, but given that such mysteries do not materially exist and therefore transcend perception (as we know it) places a dark pall over the possibility of ever detecting a mechanism for such abstractions.
Creation itself raises a question in relation to the conclusions of scientific theory. As stated above, the current consensus among physicists and cosmologists is that matter was neither created nor can it be destroyed. This poses a potentially catastrophic problem for the biblical account of creation. Yet it must be noted that this is a problem only insofar as one elects to read the relevant texts in a rigidly literal manner. To this there are a number of things that can be said. From a Christian theological perspective one is required to distinguish between the Revelation of God and the record of that revelation. The Christian does not believe that the Word of God was made print, but rather that “the Word (λογος) became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14).” To the Christian it is the person of Jesus of Nazareth who is the perfect Revelation of God and the canonical texts but the record of God’s continual revelation to people.
On the reading of the biblical text it has been commonly assumed that the words of Genesis 1 imply a creation ex nihilo; ‘out of nothing.’ Yet a closer examination of the text in question may show other possibilities;
“In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was formless and void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while the wind from God swept over the waters. Then God said, ‘Let there be light;’ and there was light (Genesis 1:1-3).”
It is altogether likely that the opening phrase was intended to function as an introduction to the theme of the myth; ‘here is what happened when God formed (the Hebrew traditionally translated ‘created’ implies the moulding of one form into another) the heavens and the earth.’ This reading would inform our understanding of the following details. In this reconstruction the first action of God was to call light into being over a pre-existing dark and formless mass. Other than agreeing, in principle, with the scientific consensus this hermeneutic of the Genesis text parallels the details of the earlier Ancient Near Eastern myths from which the Genesis myth of creation developed. No Jew or Christian, on the basis of the sacred texts, is required to accept a creation from nothing. Besides, in making the important distinction between truth and fact, the historical-critical reader is perfectly aware that these a mythological accounts and not scientific textbooks.
I guess we might move from an idea of a quality – say a wellmade nest – to the ideal of a “perfect” expression of that quality. A perfect nest. But I’m suspicious of the notion of “perfection,” and the too-easy assumption that we’ve got to the “transcendent” and especially to the transcendent “good,” thereby.
Specifically, why isn’t the move from making better and better nests say, and having a clearer and clearer idea of a nest … just moving toward an abstract idea or schema? A sort of generalized notion of the general essence of a nest … but not necessarily of the “perfect”?
But especially, making something well, according to its schematic type, is not always good. I might be designing better and better gasoline automobiles every day, say; but then after all, maybe gasoline engines are all essentially obsolete and polluting. So that I have made something that a increasingly “perfect” in conforming to the essential idea; and yet it is not good.
So that? The idea of “perfection” and the “good” are not necessarily inevitably linked.
Dear ‘Brettongarcia,’ what a spectacular comment. By opening this response thus, it is obvious I am stalling in order to think. It seems that you are both correct and wrong. We may begin from your conclusion that ‘perfection’ and ‘the good’ are not inevitably correlated and proceed back through the premises of your argument. The analogy of the combustion engine is rather good, but our understandings of ‘perfection’ with regard to this are categorically different. We might see the development of the gasoline engine as an advance, yet it is not an end in itself as you assume. The very idea of an engine is a means to ‘better’ facilitate transport, and in this regard the combustion engine is a ‘better’ (faster and more efficient) mode of transport than, say, the horse and cart. ‘Perfection’ here, however, is not the ‘perfect’ gasoline engine, but the ‘perfect’ mode of transport. Thus further development of the “obsolete and polluting” combustion engine does not constitute a move toward ‘perfection;’ as perfection would be the best mode of transport. Here ‘best’ would encompass such notions as speed, efficiency, capacity and environmental sustainability. So, at a point in the advance of technology, the developing engine would cease being ‘good’ and therefore stop moving to perfection.
On the construction of better and better nests moving toward an abstract idea or schema rather than ‘perfection,’ it must be conceded that you are correct. Perfection is not possible, precisely because of its nature as a transcendent ideal. Yet without this foundational intuition of ‘the perfect’ the very idea of ‘improvement’ is impossible. The nest-builder knows the qualities of the perfect nest and so with imperfect materials and tools sets towards this transcendent ideal, thus improving upon the existing. It is for this reason that we spoke of the ontology of imagination; if the nest-builder did not know what the benefits of the ‘perfect’ nest were, the nest could not evolve by the power of the builders imagination and nest building skills.
This brings us to your opening comment; a comment that has caused me no small amount of thought. You are suspicious that the attainment of perfection leads to an assumption of the transcendent? If I am correct in my reading of this it must be that you assume the achievability of perfection. The counter to this is that such a belief is a failure of imagination; can this ‘perfect’ nest not possibly be improved upon? Surely this would be the end of invention and innovation. That we are able to imagine something ‘more perfect’ than our perfect nest points of necessity to the transcendent nature of perfection. Whether or not this relates perfection to the good was not an assumption reached in the article, and I may need more think time to puzzle this one out. At present I am of the opinion that ‘quality,’ ‘the good,’ ‘perfection’ and some others are qualities of the transcendent, yet very much distinct qualities. Please get back to me on this.
Why argue or apologize: those seem like good replies!
Perhaps we have done something important moreover, in Philosophy. From the schooldays when I read Plato, and his discussion on “Ideal” “forms,” I felt that he was guilty of a kind of confusion. Specifically, I felt that he was failing to note that there are important conceptual differences between 1) the attempted or real attainment of “perfection,” as in visualizing a perfect schema or Idea (a perfectly staight line; a perfectly formed nest), vs. indeed, 2) the achievement of moral perfection, or cosmological status. My example of the combustion engine tries to give an example of what I meant: you might visualize/project a “perfect” engine, but it is “perfect” only in being a pure expression of its type or genre. But is it not indeed, perfect transportation. Or enshired in some cosmic museum of eternally perfect things.
I feel this is a problem with Plato and his notion of perfect “forms”; one that you and I have perhaps begun to answer, however.
Congratulations and thanks.
Dear ‘Brettongarcia,’ this argument towards a definition of the transcendent is Platonic but my problem is that I am not a philosopher and so tumble through some of the major themes. Rather than seeking to create this ‘museum of eternally perfect things’ in my vision of ‘the transcendent,’ my aim is to give an adequate expression of the eternal ‘qualities’ that make any form or idea perfect. Whilst I am aware of the inherent weaknesses of the ontological argument vis-á-vis God, it is with this very structure of ontology that I am attempting to give reality to this notion of the transcendent. Your help in hammering this out would be most welcome. This is a theme I intend to develop over the course of these God Debate articles.
The reference to the first creation narrative in Genesis brought some things to my mind: Seeing that the light was good and separating it from the darkness doesn’t necessarily imply the darkness lacked goodness. There seems to be a psychic impulse to master or at the very least avoid chaos, but are there not some instances of experience where the chaos, perhaps articulated as a living vibrant ever moving rush rather than the negative “darkness and void” is prefferable?
Dear ‘Notbymysilence,’ this is an interesting point and thank you for the comment. I shall not pretend to be an expert on the Genesis creation myth; all that one can say is that this is a highly sophisticated redaction of Hebrew, Yahwistic myth and a fusion of earlier mythic motifs. From what I can gather there is no implication that the light is ‘good’ as in ‘better than’ the darkness. ‘Good’ in this sense appears to be employed as ‘beneficial’ for what shall follow. Chaos is something different altogether. The central current of Hebrew and Ugaritic myth is that chaos is destructive and therefore must be overcome in order to create life. This theme of chaos is returned to repeatedly throughout the Hebrew Bible in relation to war and destruction, and in particular to the Assyrian and Babylonian invasions before the Persian Period.
Yes, indeed there are times in real life when chaos is to our advantage. One thinks immediately of Sun Tzu who wrote, “Amid the turmoil and tumult of battle, there may be seeming disorder and yet no real disorder at all; amid confusion and chaos, your array may be without head or tail, yet it will be proof against defeat.” Yet the biblical author is not writing of the real world but of the simplistic myth world of binary symbolic opposites. It took me quite some time to think this one over. Thank you.
Thank you for visiting my blog…wow…it will take me awhile to work at understanding your articles. I don’t know if I am quite at this level. But, I wanted to let you know that I put St. Brigid of Ireland on my blog:) I couldn’t find much. Thank you for the suggestion. I am not a feminist, in the traditional sense of the word, and I love theology, read it a lot, but only have a degree in English Literature. I pray a lot, which includes the Rosary. Does that count? Thanks for taking the time to stop by…God bless you!
Dear ‘Lame Housewife,’ there is no need for such timidity. You ‘only’ have a degree in Literature? ‘Lame’ Housewife? Does the rosary count as prayer? By the sounds of things there is very little lame about you, and as for prayer – well that is between you and God. The most wonderful thing about theology is at can be spoken about at every level of human activity; from a tea break conversation to an academic presentation – it is not an élite sport, and I cannot emphasise this point enough. You are more than welcome to this blog and your contribution (always going to be smarter than you think) is always valuable. So please do feel free to comment and discuss.
God bless you also.
What God calls into existence in the beginning can be termed as “not god.” What was created was something that in fact is not God. God, assuming the Jewish and Christian understanding of God, does not create that which is God, but rather that which is “not god.” The entire empirical universe, the “not god”, is the only object which materialistic science can study. God is by definition outside of the study of material science. God creates “not god” (the material universe – including us) capable of having a relationship with God, capable of “bearing God”, capable of union with God. God creates “not god” with the capacity of knowing God and having union with God. In this “not god” universe there is also consciousness, conscience and free will. “Not god” has no being apart from God (at least materially) but can by conscious choice choose to ignore God or rebel against God. Humans find they can function in the world “without god” (even if believers would add, but not very well). The Christian mystery is that God, the Creator of “not god”, does one more thing beyond reason and understanding – God becomes “not god”. That is the incarnation, the Word became flesh. This of course tells us that the material universe is a lot different than we imagine – the dividing wall between creation and Creator is not eternal but belongs only to the space and time continuum which itself is not eternal but was called into being.
Dear Ted, thank you for this fantastic crack at the Incarnational nut. This is very well put indeed. I particularly enjoyed the artful distinction between God and ‘not god’ (Creator and ‘not creator’) as a means of differentiating the separate magisteria of faith and empiricism. In spite of our best efforts to approach the idea of a transcendent God by thought, we are forever led to the cul-de-sac wherein we must accept faith as mystery or reject the idea out of hand. It becomes quite the philosophical gordian knot.
I feel(/agree?) that the old “immanent” vs. “eminent” – and even religious/secular – distinction, needs to be dissolved, or weakened. For biblical reference, not only is God found in the “flesh” in Jesus; but he is also not found just in heaven, but in “all things” in heaven “and earth,”
So that? Specifically, even a “secular” perspective has much of religion/God in it. And can apprehend qualities, even like the “transcendent.”
Thank you for this comment Goodman, I certainly agree with you in the notion that the Creator has imparted a hallmark upon creation which is discernible by human reason. Yet the text to which you have referred (Colossians 1:16) has been taken out of context. It does not imply that God is in all things. To this I would refer you to the comment above by Father Ted, who made the distinction between God and ‘not god.’ To your last point, absolutely. If the transcendent were not perceptible by secular society then any discussion on this topic in the secular world would be futile; the appeal is made to our common faculties of reason.
Father Ted’s remarks do seem to AT FIRST accept the God/Not God distinction. Yet, 1) his remarks note some kind of reconciliation between the two.
Indeed, logically, 2) how is it that God could make something, that is not his? And something that he does not reside in, somehow? I argue that 3) indeed, there are many parts of the Bible that suggest, in context, that God is actually, in all things.
The original context of my quote is not Colossians, but Jeremiah 23.24. Where it is clear enough.
By the way? 4) If you argue that the “transcendent” can be made sense of, for secular people? Then you in effect argue that it can be justified with reason; in worldly terms. Either that, our you are not using reason honestly. But are only pretending to use Reason.
Dear Goodman, I may be wrong in sensing some hostility in this comment, but let me assure you that it has not been my intention to upset or frustrate you. On your final point you suggest that I argue that the transcendent may be made sense of, but quite categorically this is not the case. Rather it is argued, and I think convincingly, that the transcendent can be ‘perceived’ by the faculties of reason. ‘Making sense’ of this transcendence is another matter entirely. For sure, at present, I must confess that I cannot make sense or understand the transcendent; all that my reason allows is a perception of its reality.
You have asked that I concede that God is ‘in all things.’ By this statement I understand you to mean that the divine infuses all created things, thus granting theological economy to a form of Animism or a strict Pantheism. Unfortunately I am unable to concede this point; as a Monotheist I accept the distinction between God and God’s creation. Where you see this divine unity or infusion ‘in all things’ in Jeremiah’s, “Do I not fill heaven and earth?” I see a prophetic reflection of the ‘omnipresence’ of a God who remains distinct from creation. That Jeremiah’s Yahweh ‘fills’ the cosmos does not demand that he is ‘in’ its elements. On this point we may have to agree to disagree.
To address Ted’s distinction between God and not-god, he does not say – as you suggest – that that which was created was not his (as belonging to or property of God); of course what God created belongs to God. What he says is that that which was created was and is distinct from its creator; they are not of the same substance. God is God, and God’s creation (which is God’s own) is creation.
Pingback: The God Debate (part four): On Conscience | homophilosophicus
I’m aware of the popular assertion of an ironclad distinction between God and his creation; I just disagree wholeheartedly with it.
Look at your own account; increasingly, over and over, God appears closer and closer to, a part of, his creation. He 1) cannot create something that is not his; and therefore, does not have the mark of the maker on/in it. Indeed, this is verified by the biblical language that says that 2) God fills “all things” in Heaven and earth. You 3) might imagine that God and his creation are somehow distinct. But? The relation and intermingling of them seems to mean that there really is no absolutely firm distinction between God and his creation.
Or in other words? I am suggesting that 4) the popular theory of “eminence,” the idea that God exists simply, above the earth, in Heaven, very strongly apart from his own creation, “eminent”ly – is just wrong. The truth is, that God is immanent. Filling all things. Around us, in everything.
Note in fact, that 5) even if God has seemed detached from the earth somehow, one “day” or another, many of us are supposed to see him return to this earth, after all, in a particularly dramatic way in fact. Though more properly? Jeremiah reminds us that he was here all along, after all.
Rather as the animists thought; though just one Spirit, and not many. The Holy Spirit especially, fills all things.
Indeed, the spirit (particularly now, as it turns out) infuses the whole world. So that there really is no possibility of distinguishing them, I suggest.
Therefore the dualistic creator/creation distinction/dualism breaks down. Or you might say, is transcended. By curiously? The once-thought transcendental … becoming flesh. Being seen in the world again.
As I suggest in my blog, the new Science of God particularly, makes this possible: the re-integration or merger, of spirit and world, creator and created.
Not to intrude too much of my own thinking, on your blog of course.
Goodman, oh no please, no one can ‘intrude too much;’ you are more than welcome. You are more than welcome also to disagree wholeheartedly with the distinction between the Creator and the created. With your right to your own opinion you will find no problem here. From my own stand-point I do indeed see where you are coming from. The only problem that I can see is with your use of the biblical texts; it appears that from an historical critical study that the authors of such texts as Jeremiah were strict monotheists. Yet he does acknowledge that there was a form of animism present in the pre-exilic religion of Israel and Judah. He condemns this folk religion, however, when he says, “Only acknowledge your guilt, that you have rebelled against the Lord your God, and scattered your favours among strangers under every green tree, and have not obeyed my voice, says the Lord (Jeremiah 3:13)”